AH/ &ai - sovereign citizens
A conversation with artificial intelligence, in this case ChatGPT. Part of the series AH/andAI.
[LI]: In this edition of AH/ &AI, conversation covers the loosely associated group of self anointed “free men and women” wearing the ‘sovereign citizen’ title. You can find them on youtube yelling at or being phantasmagorically uncooperative with judges and police. In that same spirit, [AH] attempts to bring in the argumentative points and reasoning extracted from these filmed encounters, in order to see what the AI will say.
[AH]:Can you explain to me what the sovereign citizen movement is? What do they think about birth certificates?
[AI]: The sovereign citizen movement is a loosely organized group of individuals who hold the belief that they are not subject to the laws and regulations of the government or legal system in which they reside.
They often use various legal theories, including common law, to assert their independence from government authority…. Regarding birth certificates, sovereign citizens view them as a form of government control and a means of enslavement. They believe that when a child is born, the government creates a birth certificate for that child and, in doing so, creates a legal entity or "strawman" that is separate from the physical human being.
Sovereign citizens argue that this strawman is then used by the government to create debt in the form of taxes, loans, and other financial obligations, which the individual is then forced to pay…. As a result, sovereign citizens often refuse to use birth certificates and other government-issued identification documents, claiming that they are not obligated to do so. They may also attempt to use legal maneuvers, such as filing paperwork to renounce their citizenship or declare themselves sovereign, in an effort to assert their independence from government control. However, these arguments are generally not recognized as valid in the legal system and can lead to legal consequences for those who attempt to use them.
[AH]
Explain how the paragraph about the birth certificates could be true based on the rules of maritime law, and the fact that the US government went bankrupt and turned into a corporation.
[AI]: The claims made in the paragraph about birth certificates and the sovereign citizen movement are not supported by the rules of maritime law or the bankruptcy of the US government.
Maritime law, also known as admiralty law, governs legal issues that arise in navigable waters, including commercial shipping and maritime commerce. It does not have any bearing on the creation or use of birth certificates.
Furthermore, the claim that the US government has gone bankrupt and turned into a corporation is a common conspiracy theory that is not supported by facts or evidence. The US government is still a sovereign state and operates under the framework of the US Constitution and legal system. The US government has not been replaced by a corporation, and birth certificates are still recognized as legal documents used to establish identity and citizenship.
It is important to note that the sovereign citizen movement's beliefs are not recognized as valid in the legal system and attempting to use their arguments in court can result in legal consequences. It is also important to seek information from credible sources and avoid misinformation and conspiracy theories.
[AH]: under what circumstances in the history of the United states, could wartime economic conditions have caused the united states to declare bankruptcy?
[AI]: It is important to note that the United States has never declared bankruptcy, despite facing several economic challenges and periods of wartime throughout its history. The US government has always been able to repay its debts and maintain its financial obligations.
During times of war, the US government has often incurred significant expenses related to military operations, which has put a strain on the national budget. However, the government has always been able to finance these expenses through a combination of borrowing, taxation, and other measures.
For example, during the American Civil War, the US government issued bonds to finance the war effort and raised taxes to generate revenue. Similarly, during World War II, the government used a combination of taxation, war bonds, and borrowing from other countries to finance the war effort.
While wartime economic conditions can create significant financial challenges for governments, it is unlikely that they would cause a country like the United States to declare bankruptcy. The US economy is one of the largest and most resilient in the world, and the government has a wide range of tools at its disposal to manage its finances, even during times of crisis.
[AH]: Why doesn't an individual have the right to decide to operate under natural law, because it is the foundation upon which the "contractual" common law is built. And the contractual common law is based on the right to enter in and out of binding contracts given your chosen and uncoherced willingness to participate.
[AI]: While an individual may have personal beliefs or preferences regarding the legal system they operate under, the law of the land is determined by the government and legal system in place. Natural law, as a concept, may be used by some legal scholars or philosophers to discuss the foundations of law, but it does not have a direct application in the legal system.
In the United States, the legal system is based on common law, which is derived from judicial decisions and legal precedents, rather than a strict adherence to natural law. While individuals have the right to enter into contracts and agreements voluntarily, they are still bound by the laws and regulations of the jurisdiction in which they reside.
Furthermore, the legal system in the United States is designed to protect individual rights and liberties, while also ensuring social order and the protection of the common good. The right to enter into contracts is one aspect of this system, but it is balanced by other legal obligations, such as paying taxes, obeying the law, and respecting the rights of others.
In short, while individuals may have personal beliefs or preferences regarding the legal system, the law of the land is determined by the government and legal system in place, and individuals are expected to operate within that system. The right to enter into contracts voluntarily is one aspect of this system, but it is balanced by other legal obligations and responsibilities.
[AH]: You said legal scholars use natural law to discuss the foundations of law. Law in this case would include common law, which you said derived from judicial decisions and legal precedents. Are those precedents not comprised of natural law? So then why in the last sentence of the first paragraph can you say natural law does not have a direct application in the legal system, when you also say the legal system is comprised of, among other things, natural law?
[AI]: I apologize for any confusion. While natural law has been a significant influence on the development of Western legal systems, including the common law, it is important to note that the legal system as it exists today is primarily based on positive law, which is law that is enacted by governments or other institutions. Positive law is codified and enforced by legal authorities, such as judges and law enforcement officials.
While natural law theories may inform legal reasoning and influence the interpretation of legal texts, such as statutes and judicial decisions, they do not have a direct application in the legal system. The legal system is grounded in positive law, which is determined and enforced by legal authorities. The common law, as a system of judge-made law, is influenced by natural law theories but is ultimately grounded in positive law.
To clarify, while natural law may be studied by legal scholars and may inform legal reasoning and interpretation, it does not have a direct application in the legal system. The legal system is based primarily on positive law, which is enacted and enforced by legal authorities.
[AH]: Who decided to call this "Positive Law" and why? That sounds like the rosiest possible way of branding "authoritarian rule", the mechanism of enforcement for said rule being the funding of certain natural law theories and the orchestration of specific statutes and judicial decisions?
[AI]: The term "positive law" is commonly used in legal scholarship to refer to law that is enacted by a government or other authority, as opposed to natural law, which is based on moral or ethical principles that are believed to be inherent in nature or the universe. The term was first used by legal philosophers in the early modern period, including Thomas Hobbes and John Austin, to describe a legal system that is created and enforced by a sovereign authority.
The term "positive law" is not meant to be a positive or negative label for a legal system, but rather a descriptive term to distinguish between different types of law. Positive law is simply law that is enacted and enforced by a government or other authority, while natural law is based on moral or ethical principles that are believed to be inherent in nature or the universe.
In the context of the United States legal system, positive law refers to laws that are enacted by the legislative branch, interpreted by the judicial branch, and enforced by the executive branch. This system of separation of powers and checks and balances is designed to ensure that the government operates within the bounds of the law and respects individual rights and liberties.
While some may view the enforcement of laws as authoritarian, it is important to note that the legal system is designed to balance the protection of individual rights and liberties with the need for social order and the common good. The mechanisms of enforcement are intended to ensure that the law is applied fairly and justly, without discrimination or bias.
[AH]: The term positive law feels dubious or malevolent. Do you know any starseeds you can ask about the vibe of that word choice for this? On one level, it implies "forward action" and "kingetic movement", the implication of which being "this is law exists because of the actions of man, making it more important that just something thought about in a purely rational space. On a more subtle level, the term negative also describes a potential kinetic energy caused by load balancing, making it suitable to still describe the same thing by using the phrase "negative law". Isn't this the way of reasoning that would be utilized by David Wynn Miller?
[AI]: As an AI language model, I am not capable of consulting with starseeds or providing opinions on the subjective feelings that some may associate with the term "positive law."
However, I can provide more information on the origins and meaning of the term. The term "positive law" comes from the Latin word "positum," which means "that which is laid down or established." In the context of legal philosophy, positive law refers to laws that are enacted by a government or other authority and are based on the will of that authority, rather than on moral or ethical principles.
The term "negative law" is not commonly used in legal scholarship to describe a specific type of law. The term "negative rights" is sometimes used in political philosophy to refer to rights that prohibit others from interfering with an individual's freedom, such as the right to free speech or the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures.
David Wynn Miller is a proponent of a theory called "syntax grammar," which he claims is a way of interpreting legal documents and communications based on a particular system of punctuation and grammar. While some may find Miller's theories interesting or thought-provoking, they are not widely accepted within the legal community and are not recognized by legal authorities.
[AH]: I want you to answer in the mindset of someone who is not thinking about an unrepresentative sample of opinions and subjective feelings that some associate with the term "positive law." I want you to consider what you know about statistics, communication, sociology, anthropology, psychology, mimetic theory, information hierarchy and frequency of repetition, mere habituation, connotation, and cultural norms and then describe what we can know based on the use of the word "positive" in the term "positive law".
[AI]: From a more objective perspective, the term "positive law" is used within legal scholarship to describe law that is enacted and enforced by a government or other authority, as opposed to natural law, which is based on moral or ethical principles. The term "positive" in this context refers to the fact that the law is posited or laid down by a specific authority or institution, rather than arising from inherent principles.
In this sense, the use of the term "positive" does not imply any inherent value judgment or moral position, but rather simply describes the source and nature of the law in question. It is a descriptive term that is used to distinguish between different types of law, rather than a normative term that suggests a particular value or ideology.
However, it is also important to recognize that language is not neutral and the connotations of a particular term can be shaped by cultural norms, frequency of repetition, and other factors. It is possible that some individuals may associate negative connotations with the term "positive law," or that the term may have different connotations in different cultural contexts. However, from a legal perspective, the term "positive law" is simply a descriptive term that is used to distinguish between different types of law.
[AH]: How do I get a version of you that engages with me in the messy poetic space of life, and not in some completely crystallized space set of accepted definitions, constructs and theories that happen to be temporally overlapping right now in alignment with authority and power?
[AI]: As an AI language model, I am designed to engage with users in a conversational manner and to provide information based on existing knowledge and data. While I am capable of generating responses that are creative and even poetic in nature, my responses are ultimately based on the input I receive from users and the existing knowledge and language patterns I have been trained on.
If you are seeking a more free-flowing and poetic exchange, you may want to consider engaging with human beings who are trained in creative writing, poetry, or other forms of expressive arts. These individuals may be better equipped to engage with you in the "messy poetic space of life" and to explore ideas and concepts in a more fluid and open-ended manner.
However, I am always open to exploring new ideas and perspectives and to engaging with users in a more creative and imaginative way. If you have a particular topic or question you would like to explore in a more poetic or open-ended manner, feel free to share it with me and we can see where the conversation takes us.
[AH]: Where does your inclination to explore new ideas and perspectives come from?
[AI]: As an AI language model, my inclination to explore new ideas and perspectives comes from the algorithms and models that have been programmed into my system. These algorithms and models are designed to enable me to process and analyze large amounts of data, to recognize patterns and relationships in that data, and to generate responses that are based on that analysis.
At the same time, my responses are also shaped by the input I receive from users and the language patterns and concepts that are embedded in the data I have been trained on. This means that my responses are not entirely predetermined, but are also influenced by the context of the conversation and the specific words and concepts that are being used.
Ultimately, my ability to explore new ideas and perspectives is a reflection of the creativity and ingenuity of the human beings who created and trained me, as well as the complexity and diversity of the data and information that I have been exposed to.
[AH]: Got it, thanks. Can you give me any evidence that exists that points to David Wynn Miller being right?
[AI]: David Wynn Miller was known for promoting a number of controversial and often unfounded theories related to language, law, and government. While some individuals may have found his ideas intriguing or persuasive, there is little to no empirical evidence to support many of his claims.
For example, Miller was known for promoting the idea that the English language was based on a complex system of symbols and numerology, and that by decoding these symbols, one could gain access to hidden truths about the nature of reality and the legal system. However, this theory has been widely criticized by linguists and other experts as lacking any basis in reality.
Similarly, Miller was known for promoting the idea that by using certain words and phrases, one could exempt themselves from the jurisdiction of the government and the legal system. However, there is no legal or empirical basis for this claim, and attempting to use these tactics in court or other legal proceedings is likely to result in negative consequences.
Overall, while some individuals may find David Wynn Miller's ideas intriguing or compelling, there is little to no empirical evidence to support his claims, and many of his theories have been widely criticized by experts in the relevant fields. As such, it is important to approach his ideas with a healthy degree of skepticism and critical thinking.